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	<title>Comments on: No problem is so big or so complicated that it can&#8217;t be run away from</title>
	<link>http://www.garyfeng.com/wordpress/2004/06/29/no-problem-is-so-big-or-so-complicated-that-it-cant-be-run-away-from/</link>
	<description>如 影 随 行</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Gary Feng</title>
		<link>http://www.garyfeng.com/wordpress/2004/06/29/no-problem-is-so-big-or-so-complicated-that-it-cant-be-run-away-from/#comment-267</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.garyfeng.com/wordpress/2004/06/29/no-problem-is-so-big-or-so-complicated-that-it-cant-be-run-away-from/#comment-267</guid>
					<description>Mark Liberman had a LanguageLog post back in April 11, 2004 (&lt;a href=&quot;http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/000743.html)&quot;&gt;http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/000743.html)&lt;/a&gt; on &quot;stranded prepositions&quot;:

:

&quot;Preposition stranding&quot; refers to cases where the object of a preposition has apparently &quot;moved&quot; to some other location in the sentence, leaving the preposition &quot;stranded&quot;. It's easy to google up some examples:

1. I am grateful to the women I have spoken to [ ] since the operation
2. Her father had a similar problem that he simply lived with [ ].
3. My great-grandfather was a collector of comics and baseball cards, which we used to fight over [ ].
4. Where does bacon come from [ ]?
5. Which analysts is he talking about [ ]?

These examples are relative clauses or questions where a questioned word or the head of a relative clause is implicitly related to a sort of &quot;silent pronoun&quot; (indicated by open square brackets in the examples above) following a preposition that has been &quot;stranded&quot; in its expected place in the clause.

[Note that preposition stranding occurs in other constructions as well, such as passives: &quot;The region was fought over [ ] by Sweden and Russia for centuries&quot;; and &quot;hollow clauses&quot;: &quot;The customer service department was difficult to deal with [ ]&quot;. ] 

In the relative clauses and questions, an alternative would be to &quot;move&quot; the preposition to be adjacent to the fronted question word or relative pronoun. Here are the same five examples with fronted prepositions -- note that the relative pronoun (here whom or which) might have to be added, since it may otherwise be omitted:

1a. I am grateful to the women to whom I have spoken [ ] since the operation
2a. ?Her father had a similar problem with which he simply lived [ ].
3a. ?My great-grandfather was a collector of comics and baseball cards, over which we used to fight [ ].
4a. From where does bacon come [ ]?
5a. About which analysts is he talking [ ]?

Haj Ross named this process &quot;pied piping&quot;, conjuring an image of the wh-word luring the preposition out of its original position, just as the Pied Piper lured the rats and children out of Hamelin. Preposition-stranding is scorned by some prescriptivists, even though it has been used by well-respected writers for centuries. 



His point -- that preposition stranding is part of standard English -- is well-taken, but my confusion here is whether only a certain cases are allowed while others may sound stange.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mark Liberman had a LanguageLog post back in April 11, 2004 (<a href="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/000743.html)"><a href='http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/000743.html' rel='nofollow'>http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/000743.html</a>)</a> on &#8220;stranded prepositions&#8221;:</p>
	<p>:</p>
	<p>&#8220;Preposition stranding&#8221; refers to cases where the object of a preposition has apparently &#8220;moved&#8221; to some other location in the sentence, leaving the preposition &#8220;stranded&#8221;. It&#8217;s easy to google up some examples:</p>
	<p>1. I am grateful to the women I have spoken to [ ] since the operation<br />
2. Her father had a similar problem that he simply lived with [ ].<br />
3. My great-grandfather was a collector of comics and baseball cards, which we used to fight over [ ].<br />
4. Where does bacon come from [ ]?<br />
5. Which analysts is he talking about [ ]?</p>
	<p>These examples are relative clauses or questions where a questioned word or the head of a relative clause is implicitly related to a sort of &#8220;silent pronoun&#8221; (indicated by open square brackets in the examples above) following a preposition that has been &#8220;stranded&#8221; in its expected place in the clause.</p>
	<p>[Note that preposition stranding occurs in other constructions as well, such as passives: &#8220;The region was fought over [ ] by Sweden and Russia for centuries&#8221;; and &#8220;hollow clauses&#8221;: &#8220;The customer service department was difficult to deal with [ ]&#8221;. ] </p>
	<p>In the relative clauses and questions, an alternative would be to &#8220;move&#8221; the preposition to be adjacent to the fronted question word or relative pronoun. Here are the same five examples with fronted prepositions &#8212; note that the relative pronoun (here whom or which) might have to be added, since it may otherwise be omitted:</p>
	<p>1a. I am grateful to the women to whom I have spoken [ ] since the operation<br />
2a. ?Her father had a similar problem with which he simply lived [ ].<br />
3a. ?My great-grandfather was a collector of comics and baseball cards, over which we used to fight [ ].<br />
4a. From where does bacon come [ ]?<br />
5a. About which analysts is he talking [ ]?</p>
	<p>Haj Ross named this process &#8220;pied piping&#8221;, conjuring an image of the wh-word luring the preposition out of its original position, just as the Pied Piper lured the rats and children out of Hamelin. Preposition-stranding is scorned by some prescriptivists, even though it has been used by well-respected writers for centuries. </p>
	<p>His point &#8212; that preposition stranding is part of standard English &#8212; is well-taken, but my confusion here is whether only a certain cases are allowed while others may sound stange.
</p>
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		<title>by: Gary Feng</title>
		<link>http://www.garyfeng.com/wordpress/2004/06/29/no-problem-is-so-big-or-so-complicated-that-it-cant-be-run-away-from/#comment-266</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.garyfeng.com/wordpress/2004/06/29/no-problem-is-so-big-or-so-complicated-that-it-cant-be-run-away-from/#comment-266</guid>
					<description>Could it be that when a verb-preposition combinatin is frequent and idiomatic, they feel like a single verb (there may even be a single transitive verb synonym) and move together?

&quot;run away from = avoid&quot; might be one

&quot;get back to = retarliate&quot;: I got back to him -&gt; He was gotton back to.

&quot;take home with = remember&quot;, ...

Unidiomatic ones, or maybe those that do not have single-verb substitutes, do not apply? Does not seem to be the case:

 I jump on the box -&gt; the box is jumped on. 
But: 
 I jump from the box -&gt; ? the box is jumped from.
Or 
 I jump below the box -&gt;* the box is jumped below.
 I jump above the box -&gt; ? the box if jumped above
 I jump beside the box -&gt; * the box is jumped beside
 I jump over the box -&gt; The box is jumped over
 I hit against the box -&gt; The box is hit against

Or, maybe some prepositions just sound good to end a sentence with, like &quot;over&quot;, &quot;against&quot;, &quot;from&quot;, but others just sound bad, such as &quot;below&quot;, &quot;above&quot; ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Could it be that when a verb-preposition combinatin is frequent and idiomatic, they feel like a single verb (there may even be a single transitive verb synonym) and move together?</p>
	<p>&#8220;run away from = avoid&#8221; might be one</p>
	<p>&#8220;get back to = retarliate&#8221;: I got back to him -> He was gotton back to.</p>
	<p>&#8220;take home with = remember&#8221;, &#8230;</p>
	<p>Unidiomatic ones, or maybe those that do not have single-verb substitutes, do not apply? Does not seem to be the case:</p>
	<p> I jump on the box -> the box is jumped on.<br />
But:<br />
 I jump from the box -> ? the box is jumped from.<br />
Or<br />
 I jump below the box ->* the box is jumped below.<br />
 I jump above the box -> ? the box if jumped above<br />
 I jump beside the box -> * the box is jumped beside<br />
 I jump over the box -> The box is jumped over<br />
 I hit against the box -> The box is hit against</p>
	<p>Or, maybe some prepositions just sound good to end a sentence with, like &#8220;over&#8221;, &#8220;against&#8221;, &#8220;from&#8221;, but others just sound bad, such as &#8220;below&#8221;, &#8220;above&#8221; &#8230;
</p>
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